{"id":3483,"date":"2010-05-09T16:07:04","date_gmt":"2010-05-09T23:07:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/lee.org\/blog\/?p=3483"},"modified":"2010-05-09T19:50:18","modified_gmt":"2010-05-10T02:50:18","slug":"polyphasic-sleep","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.lee.org\/blog\/2010\/05\/09\/polyphasic-sleep\/","title":{"rendered":"Polyphasic Sleep"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I&#8217;d love to get more time to do everything than other people. Here&#8217;s a recent discussion between a friend and I about polyphasic sleep. Darn him if he doesn&#8217;t make excellent arguments against the possibility of me (or most people) ever doing it.<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br \/>\nFrom Lee<br \/>\nWhen we were together, I spoke to you about polyphasic sleeping. It was my impression that you believed polyphasic sleeping couldn&#8217;t be done because people just aren&#8217;t capable of doing it for more than a short period of time (IE like the breatharian argument &#8211; no one is a breatharian for more than a few weeks because they die).<\/p>\n<p>Morgan Engel presented at the September 2009 5 Minutes of Fame &#8220;A Primer on Polyphasic Sleeping&#8221;.<br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.ustream.tv\/recorded\/2180170\">http:\/\/www.ustream.tv\/recorded\/2180170<\/a> 25 minutes into the video. At 29:00 he says (paraphrased ) &#8220;I did it for 6 months and it was great. I taught myself many things with the extra time. I had to stop because my girlfriend thought it was weird&#8221;. But also&#8230;  &#8220;it&#8217;s really hard to do because to have to live a regimented lifestyle.&#8221; That is a popular refrain I&#8217;ve seen from others.<\/p>\n<p>If this page (<a href=\"http:\/\/trypolyphasic.com\/map\">http:\/\/trypolyphasic.com\/map<\/a>) is any indication, there are maybe 100-1000 people in the world who say they have successfully done polyphasic sleep.<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s lots of resources and community around it&#8230; this is a good starting point: <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Polyphasic_sleep\">http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Polyphasic_sleep<\/a><\/p>\n<p>That said, I think a good simple summary would be:<br \/>\nPolyphasic sleep is certainly possible. However, it takes at least as much personal effort as going to a gym regularly. The awkward social aspects add to the difficulty.<\/p>\n<p>Since I&#8217;ve never been able to make it to a gym on a regular basis despite trying and knowing that there are many personal benefits (having more energy, improved physical strength, needing less sleep), and I don&#8217;t feel a serious desire to attempt this, I&#8217;m not going to. At least not right now&#8230; ;-)<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br \/>\nFrom my friend<br \/>\nYeah, I should qualify that a little. I think *most* people can&#8217;t do it, but I&#8217;m not going to bet against outliers (given 5&#215;10^9 people, lots of room under the tails of the Gaussian.)  But  I&#8217;d really like to see something more objective than self-reporting of &#8220;successful&#8221;<br \/>\npolyphasers. I think the physical is harder than the social (though the latter is a convenient excuse).<\/p>\n<p>But who knows what&#8217;s &#8220;normal,&#8221; actually:<br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.thefreelibrary.com\/Slumber%27s+Unexplored+Landscape-a056458799\"> http:\/\/www.thefreelibrary.com\/Slumber%27s+Unexplored+Landscape-a056458799<\/a><\/p>\n<p>-J<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br \/>\nFrom Lee<br \/>\n&gt; But who knows what&#8217;s &#8220;normal,&#8221; actually:<br \/>\n&gt; <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thefreelibrary.com\/Slumber%27s+Unexplored+Landscape-a056458799\">http:\/\/www.thefreelibrary.com\/Slumber%27s+Unexplored+Landscape-a056458799<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Wow. The big thing I got from that article was, &#8220;You think you know about sleep? You don&#8217;t know ANYTHING about sleep!&#8221; Wow. Thanks.<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>&gt; I think the physical is harder than the social (though the latter is a<br \/>\n&gt; convenient excuse).<\/p>\n<p>Ummm. If the article you quoted had a summary, it would be something like, &#8220;While scientific documentation is tentative on the subject, clearly the parameters of sleep are wildly flexible and depend to a great extent on social context.&#8221; The social aspect is clearly not &#8220;a convenient excuse&#8221;, in fact it is a keystone.<\/p>\n<p>There were several examples of polyphasic sleep in the article, though it&#8217;s interesting to note that no mention of people getting LESS sleep, just DIFFERENT sleep. Yeah, maybe I&#8217;m just trying to split hairs to my advantage; what I want to see is a way to lose less of my life to nonproductive sleep and what the article talks about is getting different sleep. Phoey, if only I could hack sleep to my advantage&#8230;<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>&gt;  But  I&#8217;d really like to see something more objective than<br \/>\n&gt; self-reporting of &#8220;successful&#8221; polyphasers.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.informaworld.com\/smpp\/content~content=a782431473~db=all\">http:\/\/www.informaworld.com\/smpp\/content~content=a782431473~db=all<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Dr. Claudio Stampi&#8217;s research<br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=myi2sRph69A \"> http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=myi2sRph69A<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.sleepingschedules.com\/understanding\/researchers\/stampi\/\"> http:\/\/www.sleepingschedules.com\/understanding\/researchers\/stampi\/<\/a> (in the video a test subject tried the Uberman sleep cycle for 2 months. After a while it started getting hard to wake him but once awake he worked almost at 100% ability and attitude. He was glad to have finished the experiment)<\/p>\n<p>This is possibly telling&#8230;. about the same number added as removed from the list each month&#8230;<br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/12\/07\/october-and-november-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/\"> http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/12\/07\/october-and-november-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/10\/12\/september-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/\"> http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/10\/12\/september-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/09\/10\/august-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/\"> http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/09\/10\/august-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/08\/09\/july-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/\"> http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/08\/09\/july-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br \/>\nFrom my friend<\/p>\n<p>&gt; There were several examples of polyphasic sleep in the article, though<br \/>\n&gt; it&#8217;s interesting to note that no mention of people getting LESS sleep,<br \/>\n&gt; just DIFFERENT sleep.<\/p>\n<p>Exactly. When = social, how much = biological.<\/p>\n<p>&gt; Yeah, maybe I&#8217;m just trying to split hairs to my advantage; what I<br \/>\n&gt; want to see is a way to lose less of my life to nonproductive sleep<br \/>\n&gt; and what the article talks about is getting different sleep. Phoey, if<br \/>\n&gt; only I could hack sleep to my advantage&#8230;<br \/>\n&gt;<br \/>\n&gt; &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br \/>\n&gt;<br \/>\n&gt;<br \/>\n&gt;&gt;  But  I&#8217;d really like to see something more objective than<br \/>\n&gt;&gt; self-reporting of &#8220;successful&#8221; polyphasers.<br \/>\n&gt;<br \/>\n&gt; <a href=\"http:\/\/www.informaworld.com\/smpp\/content~content=a782431473~db=all\">http:\/\/www.informaworld.com\/smpp\/content~content=a782431473~db=all<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Thanks for data. Wow, N=99 might actually be statistically significant.<\/p>\n<p>Still not buying this one, though: &#8220;prolonged sustained performance&#8221; = only the duration of the race, right? And a mean reduction of total sleep time of a little more than an hour? That&#8217;s not particularly rare or novel: we did it during SWARM crunch time, and of course naps will help when you are sleep-deprived for other reasons.<\/p>\n<p>&gt; Dr. Claudio Stampi&#8217;s research<br \/>\n&gt; <a href=\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=myi2sRph69A\">http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=myi2sRph69A<\/a><br \/>\n&gt; <a href=\"http:\/\/www.sleepingschedules.com\/understanding\/researchers\/stampi\/\">http:\/\/www.sleepingschedules.com\/understanding\/researchers\/stampi\/<\/a> (in<br \/>\n&gt; the video a test subject tried the Uberman sleep cycle for 2 months.<br \/>\n&gt; After a while it started getting hard to wake him but once awake he<br \/>\n&gt; worked almost at 100% ability and attitude. He was glad to have<br \/>\n&gt; finished the experiment)<\/p>\n<p>This just tells me that the study author has skin in the game. The &#8220;Founder and Director of the Chronobiology Research Institute&#8221; needs to<br \/>\nhave some kind of angle, and his looks like polyphasic sleep.<\/p>\n<p>See <a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0195383427\/\">http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0195383427\/<\/a> for more detail on institutional bias.<\/p>\n<p>&gt; This is possibly telling&#8230;. about the same number added as removed<br \/>\n&gt; from the list each month&#8230;<br \/>\n&gt; http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/12\/07\/october-and-november-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/<br \/>\n&gt; http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/10\/12\/september-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/<br \/>\n&gt; http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/09\/10\/august-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/<br \/>\n&gt; http:\/\/jorel314.wordpress.com\/2009\/08\/09\/july-2009-polyphasic-bloggers\/<\/p>\n<p>I still don&#8217;t trust self-reporting. Look: if Lance Armstrong can have a resting pulse of 42 when average males are 70, I have no doubt that there are sleep ninjas that can make do with only a few hours. I just haven&#8217;t seen any convincing examples that normal chumps like us can &#8220;hack sleep&#8221; for any length of time while remaining alert, happy, and sane.<\/p>\n<p>So bust out the modafinil and snort that orexin-A<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br \/>\nFrom Lee<br \/>\nFirst, thanks for a stimulating conversation. :-)<\/p>\n<p>You&#8217;ve made some excellent points.<\/p>\n<p>Polyphasic sleep &#8211; Possible. Hard. Not fun.<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Possible&#8221; &#8211; SOME people gain SOME advantage over the course of a FEW months &#8220;Hard&#8221; &#8211; Takes time and training, detracting from the overall effect. Causes real social detriment &#8220;Not fun&#8221; &#8211; Over the course of months and years, people want to do what feels good. Putting desires like sleep and food on hold for long periods wears at a person.<\/p>\n<p>I want to write and think more about the subject but there are only so many hours in a day. Heh, get it? ;-)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I&#8217;d love to get more time to do everything than other people. Here&#8217;s a recent discussion between a friend and I about polyphasic sleep. Darn him if he doesn&#8217;t make excellent arguments against the possibility of me (or most people) ever doing it. &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211; From Lee When we were together, I spoke to you about [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3483","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-general"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lee.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3483","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lee.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lee.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lee.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lee.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3483"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.lee.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3483\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3484,"href":"https:\/\/www.lee.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3483\/revisions\/3484"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lee.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3483"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lee.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3483"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lee.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3483"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}